Sigh.
It’s hard to think about what happened on that terrible day and then look around and see what’s happening today and not think that we are utterly frikkin’ nowhere. The controversy over the so-called Ground-Zero Mosque, the proposed burning of Korans. It’s depressing.
It’s depressing that so many people in the US don’t understand the Constitution, and treat it as optional. The first amendment protects speech we don’t like and religions we don’t follow. That’s how we know we are free to speak our mind and follow religions of our own choosing (or follow no religion at all) without the government contradicting us. You don’t get to ignore it just because something is unpopular — the point of having these rights enumerated is so that the majority can’t become a mob and bully the minority via government action. It’s reminiscent of Animal Farm (not that the ones who have read it would like the comparison with a satire of Soviet communism. Or read the book.) where the rules get changed — as if we woke up one morning and found that the first amendment suddenly read Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, unless any of these conflicts with the feelings of the majority …
What’s worse is when they drape themselves in the flag and declare themselves as true Americans.
And then there’s the Koran burning. That’s been put on hold, maybe — it’s not clear to me what’s going on. Pastor Jones has the right to do this, of course, as a free speech issue. And I hope all of those who encourage his actions remember this the next time the issue of flag burning as free speech comes up. But it’s still an issue of religious tolerance; what I don’t understand is all the rhetoric and posturing that seems designed to bring us down to the level of the fanatics — the burning, the “no mosque so long as there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.” If they hate us for our freedom, I don’t think the solution is to get rid of our freedoms, or to become just as fanatical. Speaking of which, I read where one response to Pastor Jones’ plan was a protest in Pakistan during which the burned a flag, ’cause that’s the perfect way to calm things down. (Good to know we haven’t cornered the market on stupid just yet.)
I hope people recognize that by painting all Muslims as terrorists and equating Islam with Al Quaeda, we’re doing exactly what those Pakistani protesters were doing — blaming all Americans for the actions of a few fanatics. Why can’t we band together the way we did for a short time after 9/11? Show our enemies that we’re better than they are, because we support diversity and tolerance; that we have freedoms that they don’t and this makes us strong and not weak.
there only 2 reasons that a mosque would be put near ground 0
1. as a “in your face” to the u.s
or 2. any other reason
if it is 1 that it is a obvious problem
id it is 2 than I am worried how the population will react.
whoever came up with the idea of this mosque is kinda dumb it would have been so much simpler had they never had the idea in the first place.
but the 1 fact that matters is they have the right to build the mosque
end of story.
i hate the idea because it can go south fast like really freaking fast
but there is no way to stop it other than marching to the mosque with torches and pitchforks. which is not an option that any sane american would EVER consider even for a microsecond
well, personally i don’t agree with putting any religious building there. The only real reason why i have a problem with it being put there is because it is associated with ground zero, and the whole cause of it was religion.
but from another perspective, as a true American, i must respect and uphold the bill of rights. Even though i do not agree with the sentiments and such of building a religious building there, i must respect those peoples rights to choose to build it there.
But this brings another question to mind, why are they so adamant on building it there after meeting so much opposition? idk about you, but if i tried to build a church or synagogue or mosque or temple in some place and met such opposition, i would move the building area. Surely there must be a separate agenda for them, rather than to just build a mosque.
BTW has anyone seen that commercial where muslims are banding together and trying to portray themselves as separated from the extremists?
My guess is that it’s it quite simple, but rather naive.
My guess is that the guy(s) wanting to build that mosque did it out of the spirit of that first amendment, hoping it to become a proof of the unity of mankind, showing the world that ‘we are all brothers’ and that sanity prevails.
But it backfired, and they meet the opposite reaction instead, which is quite understandable considering the level of education about the world outside USA many Americans seems to have. You seem to be feed an even mix of ‘the free market’ as in ‘everyone can (and will) get rich’, patriotism and religion, and those are all strong uniter’s of men, especially good when other views might separate them all too much, a little like becoming instant buddies when discussing sports. ‘We cheer for the same team after all, he’s gotta be a good guy.’
It’s not only Muslims that have those primeval ‘gut-reactions’. Play on the right strings and people will react, in Sweden as well as in the States. But depending on the level of education your country brings forth it will express itself differently I believe. So it’s not that good a reference for your school system.
And not meaning it, those Muslim guys played us a masterpiece of stupidity and, as I guess many sees it, now playing another piece called ‘arrogance’, refusing to fold in. Not that I don’t think they have the right to build a mosque if they own the land, but it is really an infected issue.
It neither does Muslims, wanting to build in the face of those not wanting it, nor Americans seeing them all as terrorists right. Both comes forward as equally pig-headed in the eyes of most Europeans. But it could happen in any Country, and it does.
if a religious group blew up the eiffel tower and then decided to build a temple next door would there be any controversy? pardon my French but
duh de la décade!!!! i know this is a little over simplified because 9/11 was done by extremists but it definitely should be controversial. after all why was this plan not scraped when they discovered the political bee hive they steeped into?
@ cipher: Islam ≠ Al Quaeda
If you drew a Venn diagram, it would be a small subset. Al Quaeda is not building the center in NY.
@Zolar V: a group that is being persecuted may just become more resolute in the face of opposition. I see no need to postulate a hidden agenda.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/kaaba1.jpg
Hypocenter for 330 kt thermonuclear burst 1000 feet above ground level. Toucha-toucha-toucha touch me, I wanna be dirty!
The British talked with the Haganah because the Irgun and the Stern Gang rendered the British talkative.
Treaty-limited (ho ho ho) ground-based LGM-30 Minuteman III delivers three W87/Mk-21 330-kiloton warheads. What of the other two? Two for the Damascus, Syria basin is a political solution. One for Damascus (bothering headquarters for perhaps a dozen Islamic terrorist organizations), one for Cairo, Egypt (8 million dead) puts Allah in his earned place.
Treaty-limited (ho ho ho) Trident II SLBM carries four Mark 5 W88 475 kt warheads. One imagines even Washington’s alphabet soup of pusillanimous incompetence can find a nice hypocenter – perhaps Tehran, Iran.
What will the United Nations do thereafter, piddle in its panties?
All those years of thinking in terms of “us” and “them” has lead to this: a house of prayer is a national issue, and is considered an insult to a nation… and all that in the land of the free. Yeah, right.
Of course, the people who planned that mosque could have used their brains a little too. They could have foreseen the issue.
But *both* sides – both the Muslim group that wants this controversial mosque, and the Us right wing gain by this discussion! It’s the moderate, and reasonable centre that loses a lot. People choose sides, and reason goes overboard.